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Shaenon K. Garrity
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11th-Jul-2008 10:07 am
Atagoul
I haven't had time to read LJ recently, so I was up way too late last night catching up. And this is what I got:

* An Onion AV Club writer venting her frustration that, whenever the AV Club interviews a reasonably attractive and successful woman, the comments section fills up with posts from men saying they'd fuck her, bragging that she's not good enough for them to fuck, and saying that they don't know her work, but they can just tell she's a stuck-up, stupid bitch who wouldn't be worth fucking. I checked the Onion AV Club and found this an accurate assessment. (Apparently, if your bio mentions that you wrote a humorous essay about getting locked out of your New York apartment, but you also have a vagina, it means you must be a rich, stupid, shallow Park Avenue bitch, because what other kind of woman lives in an apartment in New York?)

* Two professors arguing that it's okay for a man to rape a woman if he really, really wants sex, because it's exactly the same as a starving man stealing a loaf of bread.

* An autobio comic by a brilliant young cartoonist in which a male acquaintance tells her that all women would be happier if they quit their jobs and devoted themselves to raising children, complete with the typical guffawing about how he'd LOVE to be a stay-at-home mom because it'd be just like loafing around the house playing Guitar Hero all day. If you've ever wondered why brilliant young female cartoonists often have such short careers, rest assured that it has nothing to do with the number of times they're told by helpful people to stop drawing and concentrate on babies.

* A friend commenting that a strange man on the BART spotted her reading a difficult-looking book and told her that no one would want to marry a woman who reads books like that.

* A friend discovering for the first time the creepy misogyny in Piers Anthony novels, which dredged up embarrassing memories of how much time I wasted in high school reading Piers Anthony. I have a very clear memory of getting fifty pages into the zillionth Xanth novel and suddenly realizing that I had never laughed once at any book in the entire series. And I hated the way all the female characters were either dumb bimbos or manipulative witches, except for Chameleon, who was both a dumb bimbo and a manipulative witch. Why did I read those things? And why did the sci-fi/fantasy community hail Anthony as a genius back in the '80s? Why were those books bestsellers while Terry Pratchett struggled to gain a foothold in the U.S.? It's weird how much this stuff continues to bug me.

* Dan Savage, who I can usually count on to get me out of a blue funk, whining yet again about how he doesn't dare write advice in his sex column criticizing a woman, because those mean old women will attack him for it. Look, I like Savage, and I hate the "women are perfect incarnations of the Goddess and can do no wrong" crowd, but I wish he'd get this particular bug out of his ass already. I know from his column that he gets plenty of stupid, self-serving mail from men, but when a man writes him a stupid email it's just an individual man being stupid, and when a woman writes him a stupid email it's Women Ganging Up on Poor Dan Savage Again. I resent being lumped in with stupid people. Also, I hate reading the comments after he posts a column like this, because it's all lonely men giving each other high-fives cuz Dan told the bitches off.


Over in the "women being awful" column, there's those two Jezebel bloggers who got drunk and made tasteless jokes about date rape on a video podcast, which the liberal blogosphere is treating as the end of modern feminism (Two women were obnoxious in public! What reason do men have ever to take women seriously again?) but I can't work up the energy to care about after wading through the other crap.

I don't want to make smug, sweeping accusations against an entire gender, because I'm not Dan Savage, but I desperately hope I come across some posts about men curing cancer or rescuing baby pandas or something.
Comments 
11th-Jul-2008 06:45 pm (UTC)
I think you should summarize the internets all the time. This was way more interesting than it is having to read it all myself.

Also, I got halfway through the SECOND Xanth novel. I am pleased with myself that I figured out how bad they were that quickly.
11th-Jul-2008 06:56 pm (UTC)
Ditto on the summarizing.

I totally fail with the Xanth novels, but I think that's cuz I read them in 4th/5th grade and shortly thereafter found more Diana Wynne Jones and Jane Yolen to occupy my time.

And, wow, just when you think maybe the clueless is lessening... sigh. Or does the internets just form clueless condensation?
11th-Jul-2008 06:46 pm (UTC)
Well... I can give you an article about panda rescue at least...

http://community.livejournal.com/cat_macros/4450563.html
11th-Jul-2008 06:49 pm (UTC)
complete with the typical guffawing about how he'd LOVE to be a stay-at-home mom because it'd be just like loafing around the house playing Guitar Hero all day.

Can I kill him? Please? Can I?
11th-Jul-2008 06:52 pm (UTC)
Don't you live with one of those man-people?

(Doesn't Andrew literally mean "Man" :D)
11th-Jul-2008 07:04 pm (UTC)
If it's rape, it's not sex, it's aggression and domination. But I'm probably not telling you anything new. I am wondering if those two professors would say that if they got raped, because it was obviously a man who really needed sex.

er... sorry. Meant to comment on Xanth and Piers Anthony in general.

I read a zillion of them too. Didn't like any of the female characters. Liked some of the cool ideas about magic and it's interaction. Ditto with the series which was half science fiction and half fantasy with the hero switching back and forth.

I have not suggested that my daughters read the Xanth books, although I know other librarians seem to think they're perfect for teenagers. I suppose reading level wise they are, but I'd rather stick with sending them to read intelligent and interesting webcomics with bright and crazy women.
11th-Jul-2008 07:10 pm (UTC)
er... and adorable cobras.

Although the two they seem to have picked up on and stuck with continue to be Girl Genius and Sluggy Freelance. Still, miles better than the Anthony books!
11th-Jul-2008 07:05 pm (UTC)
Nothing like blaming the opposite sex for being single and lonely!


Sometimes one just gets so weary of this stuff... When some guy asks, "why is there a need for women's comicker/writer/artist/professional/whatever groups?? Isn't that sexist?" We need an environment free from these things. It's refreshing.
11th-Jul-2008 07:58 pm (UTC)
I think the problem is generally that all-female groups are about support regarding a specific set of issues, while all-male groups are often about concentrating wealth and power and general good-ol-boy networking. So I do think it's sexist to object to all-male groups in principle but not all-female ones; it's just that all-male exclusivity is often associated with other kinds of institutionalized sexism...
11th-Jul-2008 07:07 pm (UTC)
(Just a random fan, but having had these days....)

I find it helps to remind myself that being a jerk of one kind (for example, misogynist) is positively correlated with being a jerk in other ways (like expressing your idiotic and underconsidered opinion loudly in public on the internet). Just because you're seeing them everywhere right now doesn't mean they actually *are* everywhere. They're just overly vocal. You have, from what I hear, a lovely husband, and I'll bet you have some pretty nice male friends, too. Spend some quality time with then and avoid the jerks for a little while, and you'll probably feel better about the world.

And if it's any comfort, I had a pretty similar shameful Anthony-fan period. Although I must shamefully admit that I did laugh at the puns in the early Xanth books, before I realized that pretty much everything else and most of the puns were pretty darn bad. The sad part is that Anthony isn't always an awful writer, he just figured out that he didn't have to write well for it to sell. (The misogyny is less easy to excuse.)
11th-Jul-2008 07:10 pm (UTC)
"A friend commenting that a strange man on the BART spotted her reading a difficult-looking book and told her that no one would want to marry a woman who reads books like that."

"My husband doesn't think so, but then, he's a certifiable genius."

You know, I am SO glad that I hang around men who are intelligent. You know, the ones who will treat you as to the content of your character, not the color of your skin (or gender.)

As for the rest, it's the Internets, and the Internets is full of idiots.

I read the Xanth books as a youngster and then I outgrew them. It was some other Anthony book that decided me that he had really weird ideas about sex and sexuality, though. I do look in that section in the bookstore, though, to see if my friend Mark Anthony has a new book out. (Yes, his parents really did that to him.)
11th-Jul-2008 07:30 pm (UTC)
Piers Anthony was only successful because of his puns. That's why I read him. Eventually though, even the puns grew tiresome, because I remember one day just throwing down the latest and thinking 'This sucks. All his books are exactly the same and even the puns aren't funny anymore. I'm going to go find something interesting to read.'

Sadly, I never grokked the misogyny in them at the time, probably because I was a self-absorbed teenage boy with no real handle on girls at all, and certainly no grip on social issues beyond thinking that the hippies had the right idea. In other words, no grip at all.

On the other hand, welcome to Teh Internets, and now you know why I am such a grouch.
11th-Jul-2008 10:19 pm (UTC)
Piers Anthony was only successful because of his puns

See, that's what I was going to say. 'cause aside from the puns & some interesting ideas, and the ability to repeat those same ideas (and empty characters) like a Xerox machine on crack, he didn't have much. The first book of each series struck me as good; and I usually finished a series long before realizing that the sequels not only weren't worth it, but that they cheapened the originals.

Don't feel too bad -- I didn't figure out the misogyny until I was 21-23ish, and I'm female. Damn puns.
11th-Jul-2008 07:31 pm (UTC)
And here I've been so good and not written the long ranty post about why does everyone in the study abroad program assume I can suddenly drop everything and drive all over town, simply because I'm a mother and I work from home.... *GRIN*




p.s. Could I swap someone my to-do list for a gaming console and a copy of Guitar Hero? Because, srsly, I did not even know that was an option.
11th-Jul-2008 10:41 pm (UTC)

p.s. Could I swap someone my to-do list for a gaming console and a copy of Guitar Hero? Because, srsly, I did not even know that was an option.

Yeah, if you find that childrearing involves time and effort, you're totes doing it wrong! Don't you know that moms just sit around eating bon-bons and honing their mad Playstation skills all day while the men do all the hard work? That is the natural order of things.
11th-Jul-2008 07:46 pm (UTC)
Back in high school, I dated a girl who liked Piers Anthony. I was curious, but instead of asking her to recommend something, I just went to the library and grabbed the first Anthony book I saw. That book was Firefly.

The first reader review tells you everything you need to know. In my then-girlfriend's defense, she also hated the book.

11th-Jul-2008 07:58 pm (UTC)
Ack. The Outside World. Get it off me.

My Mom wouldn't have put up with any of that stuff. Neither would most of the relatives and teachers I knew growing up. What can I say? I got really lucky with the time and place of my upbringing. So at least I don't have the added misery of feeling like somehow it might all be true.

All I have to put up with is the horror of realizing that there are still morons who think like that. Bad enough, really. Bleah.
11th-Jul-2008 10:57 pm (UTC)
My Mom wouldn't have put up with any of that stuff. Neither would most of the relatives and teachers I knew growing up. What can I say? I got really lucky with the time and place of my upbringing. So at least I don't have the added misery of feeling like somehow it might all be true.

Yeah, I've got the same thing going on. I come from this matriarchal family of tough, take-charge women with...um...distinctive personalities. I was not raised to take crap. And nowadays I surround myself with people who, whatever their amusing personal issues, have at least grasped that women are just people, so it can be a shock to stumble upon those gaping pits of festering male resentment against the female Other that pockmock the Internet.
11th-Jul-2008 08:14 pm (UTC)
Oh man, Piers Anthony. I though he was pretty decent when I first discovered him, but that was before I knew about critical reading and such. He's still a guilty pleasure, though. Only without the 'pleasure' part.
11th-Jul-2008 08:17 pm (UTC)
Bio of a space tyrant is the only Pierce Anthony book I can remember reading.

I do recall that at one point in the series he has to "Rape" his bride to be in order to be accepted.
11th-Jul-2008 08:22 pm (UTC)
You'd think that two professors engaging in such academic wankery would look at each other at some point and say: "what are we doing?"
"Mutual academic masturbation"
". . . masturbation! That's the perfect solution!"
11th-Jul-2008 09:08 pm (UTC)
What a term.

While on a jury for a murder trial and deliberating the verdict, we were going over the details of the case, nitpicking it. The oldest man on the jury stood up and said "Look, let's cut this crap out. He's guilty, we all know he is, and any discussion is just mental masturbation." There was a brief pause, and we all looked at each other, and agreed. (He WAS guilty, there was no doubt about it, and the mountain of evidence, including his videotaped confession, the bloody knife with his and her blood on it, etc. sealed it. We were, in fact, doing what he said we were doing. We were busy focusing on the order of words exchanged in the back seat of the cop car, which was trivial.)

It's amazing what the human mind can devolve to, especially in large quantities. It seems like the more people you add to a process, the stupider it becomes. And since the Internet connects millions of people... yeah.
11th-Jul-2008 08:29 pm (UTC)
Damn, the internet is depressing today.
Which autobio comic, and where specifically was Dan whining this time? I like his work, most of the time, but I'm getting pretty fed up with the OH NOES THE WIMMINS WILL CUM AFTER ME crap and the anti-pit bull crap. Also the relationship-counseling-is-stupid crap.
11th-Jul-2008 08:29 pm (UTC)
Ah, yes, what would I do without the internet to remind me that I am nothing but a pair of insufficiently large tits that talk too much?
11th-Jul-2008 11:06 pm (UTC)
And should be home making babies and dinner and doing nothing else with my mouth but blow jobs?

I hate being a girl.
14th-Jul-2008 05:17 pm (UTC) - Stereotypes
Here, have a peek into a strange alternative universe.

One of my favorite books is Brother's Price by Wen Spencer. I need to break it out and reread it for the 12th time tonight.
=
11th-Jul-2008 08:45 pm (UTC)
"...he'd LOVE to be a stay-at-home mom because it'd be just like loafing around the house playing Guitar Hero all day."

Yes. Because that's EXACTLY what it's like. The diapers, colic, tantrums, diapers, teething, picking up, teaching social skills, teaching reading, diapers, teaching math, cleaning, exhaustion, shopping, diapers, appointments, chauffeuring, dealing with teachers, doctors, and school admin., diapers, sibling fights...

And that doesn't even touch on all the other jobs you often get stuck with from family and friends because you "don't work", or work at home which, as anyone will tell you, really means "doesn't work".

Yeah, it's just like playing Guitar Hero all day.
11th-Jul-2008 09:28 pm (UTC)
Well said. Nap time is barely enough time to make a grocery list and tidy up the house a little.
11th-Jul-2008 09:13 pm (UTC)
Um, yeesh? The stupid, it burns.

For what it's worth, I don't think the "fantasy/sci-fi community" hailed Anthony as a genius in the 80s. My understanding is that he was thought of as an up-and-coming promising writer in the late 60s to mid-70s (for example, he got an invite to Dangerous Visions), but as of a few books into the Xanth series he was generally relabeled as "author who'd happened on a commercially successful formula and was running with it". After the first one or two Xanth books, I don't think he was nominated for any significant sf/fantasy awards.

Also, it's not like I have kids, but I know that being a parent to young ones in particular hardly resembles staying home and slacking off. When I used to refer to my nieces as "rent-a-kids, that I can return to the parentals when I get tired of being responsible for 'em", I wasn't entirely joking, but was aware of the difference of having kids around when they're fun, and being able to pass them onto someone else when they're not. And I'm very aware the the first year or so of a kid is essentially signing up for Sleep Deprivation: The Lifestyle.

As for the friend on BART, well, while there are certainly other factors, reading is certainly on my requirements list for prospective spouses. And if there's anything I'm proud of in terms of my selection of romantic partners, it's that they've all been smart and accomplished types; multiple advanced degrees, scientists or engineers, significant personal libraries, etc.
11th-Jul-2008 09:25 pm (UTC)
Graaargh. Why can't everyone be as wonderful as our husbands? I'm going to hug mine the moment I see him. Of course, I usually do that anyway...
11th-Jul-2008 09:52 pm (UTC)
I'm sorry. I've tried talking to the rest of my gender, but they just don't listen.

If it helps, I'm usually attracted to smarter women (my wife is currently teaching at Berkeley).
11th-Jul-2008 09:57 pm (UTC)
"I've tried talking to the rest of my gender, but they just don't listen."

Keep doing it anyway. Sooner or later some if it has to get through.
11th-Jul-2008 09:56 pm (UTC)
My own Piers Anthony awakening came in my early teens, after being a fan for years. I picked up the latest book and noticed that he was talking about the mermaid's nipples about two paragraphs in, before telling us anything else about her.

It seems like Anthony introduced me to a lot of intellectual and SF concepts before any other writer, in ways I could understand at the time. Maybe it's not that he's a bad writer, just someone you need to outgrow. (then again, the period of development in which you don't notice the messed-up sexism is arguably the period at which you're most vulnerable to picking it up).
11th-Jul-2008 10:00 pm (UTC) - I've never read Piers Anthony
Did you avoid the whole Wm Sanders and Helix rejection letter eruption? Lucky you.

By the way, I'm trolling for essays for the Journal of Bloglandia, Issue 2, if you'd be interested in having something in there. Here's the lowdown:

http://wapshottpress.com/j-bloglandia/

Deadline is August 1 or thereabouts.
11th-Jul-2008 10:20 pm (UTC) - Re: I've never read Piers Anthony
I thought of the Sanders thing but didn't mention it because it seems like the exactly opposite of what [info]shaenon was asking for. But now that the cat's out of the bag it might be worth mentioning that this related post brings to light an easily-mockable phrase which may be useful in some contexts.
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